Quotes: You Were Never Going to Be Anybody Else

Food for thought for a new year:

“You learned better and you got on with things. You learned that you were what you were, and tried to be the best version of that person, because you were never going to be anybody else. And you stopped envying other people because everyone had problems you didn’t know about.”

–Sister Clara in Paladin’s Strength by T. Kingfisher

Current Reading Paladins Strength

I can’t think when I’ve last felt envious of another person. I’m sure it has happened, and relatively recently, too; I just can’t remember it. Which means—I hope, at least!—it can’t have been a very strong emotion or moment, which is a good thing.

In any case, more of the best version of myself for the coming year would also be great, not just for me but for the people around.

Kingfisher, T. Paladin’s Strength. Dallas: Argyll Productions, 2021, p. 200.

Image by Eppu Jensen

Happy Holiday Wishes!

2024 was again a tough one, for me at least. I wasn’t the only one in my extended family dealing with unforeseen health issues. The situation is, fortunately, improving slowly but surely. And, at the very least, my circumstances allowed me to read a lot. 🙂

2024 Reader with Santa Hat

We’re vacationing for the rest of the year. Until 2025, Happy Merry and a Happy New Year! We hope your end-of-the-year celebrations bring you joy, whichever shape it may take. Stay safe.

Image by Eppu Jensen

The Song of Seikilos

We know that the ancient world was full of music. Some of the earliest texts to survive from antiquity are songs, and ancient art is full of musical performances. Sadly, we know very little about what that music sounded like. The texts of many songs survive, but not the melodies that went with them.

It’s a rare treat, therefore, when we find evidence for the music that went along with a text. The modern form of musical notation developed only in the past several centuries, but ancient people had their own forms of musical notation. The earliest complete song preserved without gaps or fragmentation is known as the Song of Seikilos, from the name on the dedicatory inscription that included it.

The text and its notation are preserved on a stone stele found at Ephesus in 1883. It was set up in the first or second century CE. The stele itself has had an interesting life since then, being at one time used as a stand for a flower pot, before ending up in the National Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen. It is generally thought that the stele was set up as a gravestone, but the original context of the find has long since been lost, so it is no longer possible to be certain. The text of the song inscribed on the stone would certainly fit:

For as long as you have to live, shine out.

Be entirely free of any pain.

There’s not much to life.

Time demands its due.

(My own translation)

Since this text is preserved with its musical notation, the song can still be performed today, and we can hear what the music of the ancient Greeks sounded like. Here’s an interpretation performed with lyre, flute, and drum.


Seikilos Epitaph (the earliest complete tune) Greek 200BC [sic] via YouTube

Image: Seikilos Stele, photograph by Artem G via Wikimedia (found Ephesus; currently National Museum, Copenhagen; 1st-2nd c. CE; marble)

First Impressions of WoW: The War Within

The newest expansion of World of Warcraft, The War Within, has been out for a few months now. Time for a first impressions post.

Eppu

The environments are really impressive, both visually and geographically (for the lack of a better term). The landscapes look more like they could’ve developed according to natural processes. (Check out, for instance, the Ruptured Lake and the descent into Azj-Kahet from Hallowfall!) And into all that, they’ve squeezed an incredible amount of distinctive questing areas, some above or below others or just down a cliff, hidden behind a hump in the hill, or the like. The flora is imaginative and unusual—we are largely underground, after all.

There are also a lot of fun details. To mention only a few: The tents that look like books are neat, and kinda remind me of the upside down ship houses in Boralus. The masses of candles in the Kobold areas look amazing, as does the darkness effect in e.g. Kriegval’s Rest. The Steam Vent in Dornogal has these heated beds for the Earthen to relax on. Looks very cozy!

WoW TWW Dornogal The Steam Vent

The only zone I don’t care for is Azj-Kahet; it’s too dark overall, even if some areas have really cool and interesting details. (The exception here is the Wildcamp Or’lay area, where the Beneath the Roots quest ends; I really could’ve gone on adventuring there much longer. Fabulous, I love it!)

Most of the music is lovely, nicely varying, and thought-out. On the other hand, almost all of the nerubian characters have too deep voices; they’re incomprehensible. Bad directing leads to wasted voice acting.

This time, Blizzard opted to hoist hero talents on top of the talents introduced in Dragonflight. (With tweaks to the talents, because you have to tweak talents for a new expansion, otherwise the world would implode, right?) That works really well, I think; no need to re-learn absolutely everything. With professions, it’s possible to craft something useful for your toons from the beginning; that’s really nice.

There are lots of creature comforts I wish Blizzard had included years ago. For example, more options to skip certain story quests on alts, the Warband bank and Deposit All button (even if it deposited also all applicable Dragonflight items, so I had to go prune them out afterwards), the Leave-O-Bot at the end of delves, or quartermasters in cities marked on the map. And speaking of maps, the functionality of clicking anywhere on the map and have that point become a tracking caret on your screen (much like it’s been possible for quests).

Also the fact that flight points are opened to alts once one of your toons has discovered them (and reached 80?) is fantastic. As a visual person, I deeply appreciate the difference in the map boot graphics: yellow boot with wings = a discovered flight point, green boot without wings = an undiscovered one.

WoW TWW Flight Points on Map

I LOVE that there now are a few dragonriding mounts that can carry a second character! As Erik doesn’t like dragonriding at all and I love it, when playing together we get to take advantage of the higher speed of dragonriding if I steer and Erik travels as a passenger. 🙂

Delves are a lot of fun, but they could also use some improvement. Like Torghast in Shadowlands, I really love the flexibility of delves—except this time, we do get loot at the end! (Something we wished had been a feature of Dragonflight.) On the other hand, we don’t get many interesting game effects like the anima powers in Torghast. Also, delves are set apart from dungeons and raids in that travel to their location is required and simply queueing (like for follower dungeons, which offer a similar type of flexibility) isn’t possible. Love the Leave-O-Bot, though, plus an easy exit at the end of a dungeon. I also like follower dungeons a lot, they make playing dungeon content easier. They could use some fine tuning, but the concept works.

A random observation to end with: Something about how the story in TWW unfolds reminds me a lot of Battle for Azeroth. Perhaps it has to do with the character-focused approach? Just about every plot point refers to its effects on people, and many quests literally focus on the personal, instead of running around fetching bucket handles or grinding through endlessly respawning faceless enemy mooks. Also, children aren’t entirely forgotten.

Erik

Almost everything I have to say about The War Within is good. This expansion delivered a lot for me to enjoy.

When the new expansion was announced as an underground experience, I was nervous. I’ve never much liked WoW‘s underground zones. I found Deepholm dull and Zaralek Cavern claustrophobic. Still, I was willing to wait and see what the design team would do, and I have been pleasantly surprised. The Ringing Deeps and Hallowfall are both beautiful zones that feel very distinct. You know you’re underground, but they don’t feel dull or oppressive. And when you need fresh air and sky above you, you can always go up to the Isle of Dorn. I don’t care for Azj-Kahet, but three out of four zones is more than enough for me to have a fulfilling game experience.

Within those zones, there is lots of attention to detail in both environment and storytelling to fill out our sense of the new peoples we meet there. The culture of the Earthen is fascinating to explore, as they find their way between the dictates of order and the pull to free will. Our kooky, scrappy, candle-wearing Kobold friends make excellent comic foils to the serious Earthen. The Arathi of Hallowfall introduce fascinating possibilities in the larger lore of WoW. I’m not interested in the Nerubians, but as with the zones, there is more than enough in the rest of the expansion for me to discover and enjoy.

WoW TWW Torchsnarls Cave2

Turning to aspects of gameplay, delves and follower dungeons bring a welcome new range of possibilities to the game for people like us who don’t like to do group content. Delves are short enough to fit a casual play schedule, challenging enough to be a satisfying test of skill, and rewarding enough to be worth doing repeatedly. Follower dungeons make it easy to enjoy dungeon content at the appropriate level without worrying about bad groups and grouchy strangers. Delves, follower dungeons, world quests, and weekly quests offer great flexibility in how to play and advance my characters. This expansions gives players like me more to do than ever before.

The most fundamental mechanical change of the expansion, of course, is the introduction of Warbands. The ability to share everything from renown progress to crafting materials seamlessly across all my characters is liberating and refreshing. Combined with the changes to transmog that let you learn any appearance you pick up, whether the character you’re playing can use it or not, these changes mark a significant shift in Blizzard’s attitude toward players. We finally have an expansion that welcomes me to play as many alts as I feel like without making it feel as though I am missing out on something important.

With all of these positives, the things that I don’t like about the expansion seem minor and unimportant. I don’t like Azj-Kahet and have no interest in the Nerubians. My dislike for the zone is not because it is badly done, though, and I hope that everyone who is into dark spidery stuff has a blast there. It is completely okay for Blizzard to make parts of the game that aren’t for me.

Dornogal feels a bit bland as a capital, less thriving and alive than Valdrakken, less magical than Dalaran, less characterful than Boralus or Zul’dazar. Still, it does have a sense of place and its own kind of beauty. I’d much rather spend an expansion in Dornogal than in Oribos.

Hero talents have turned out to be less interesting than I hoped. On most of my characters, the choice is made for me because of the two options available, one revolves around a talent I don’t use or serves a playstyle I’m not interested in. Few of the individual hero talents feel like they make much of a difference to how I play. On the other hand, I don’t really want a big shake-up to how I play my characters, so on balance, I’m fine with the system.

I find the main story of Smug Floating Shadow Elf Doing Vaguely Evil Stuff to be boring, but the truth is that in every expansion, I’m usually bored by the main story. I find my joy in the small stories we experience along the way, and The War Within has not disappointed with its side stories. From wacky Kobold bedtime stories to sensitive reflections on aging and the loss of treasured memories, this expansion has plenty to offer. Just like Azj-Kahet and the Nerubians, I can completely ignore the Smug Elf, Traumatized Prince, and Angry Ranger Show and still have more than enough to do.

Overall, my reaction to this expansion is: There are things I don’t care for and am not interested in, but there are so many things for me to enjoy that I hardly even notice the rest.

Images: World of Warcraft screencaps

Quotes: Google Has Essentially Broken Its Key Product


The so-called artificial intelligence (AI) is a divisive topic. Abigail Nussbaum writing at Lawyers, Guns and Money argues:

“The companies that make AI—which is, to establish our terms right at the outset, large language models that generate text or images in response to natural language queries—have a problem. Their product is dubiously legal, prohibitively expensive […], and it objectively does not work. All of these problems are essentially intractable. […]

“That non-technology industries are falling for this spin [that AI is inevitable] is perhaps unsurprising […] What’s more interesting is that other Silicon Valley companies are doing the same, even though, again, the result is almost always to make their product worse. Google has essentially broken its key product, and Microsoft is threatening to spy on all its users and steal their data, all because a bunch of CEOs have been incepted into the idea that this technology is the future and they cannot afford to be left behind.”

Nussbaum is packing quite a bit into a relatively short post. With regard to the claim that Google’s search engine is broken, she refers to an article in The Verge by Elizabeth Lopatto. Lopatto in turn provides some examples that are truly hair-raising: apart from unusable—or plain wrong—data, Google has offered potentially life-threatening answers to user queries.

Personally, for at least a decade if not longer, I haven’t used Google unless I can’t get anything sensible out of other engines, so I’m not the best person to comment on Google specifically. However, I have noticed that pretty much every search engine I’ve tried has gotten worse.

(Please note that my opinion below is based on my experience as an information professional, and on the experiences of my friends and acquaintaces as well; I don’t want to repeat in my experience in every other sentence. Please also note that your experience may differ, and that I am aware of this possibility. And, finally, please note that this is an opinion post, so I will be selective with my point of view and using hyperbole.)

For one large problem, ads are rife among search results. It used to be possible to see a page of results with a couple of ads. Now it’s almost a page of ads with a couple of results sprinkled in for appearance’s sake. I understand the necessity of procuring funding. What I do not understand is destroying customer trust by no longer providing the service you claim to provide.

WTF Is This Cat

For another, advanced search is disappearing. (Here Google does seem to work slightly better than its competition, at least in some contexts, at least some of the time.) One example of a basic operation that’s stopped being reliable is excluding a word from your query by typing a minus in front of it; the term almost always if not always shows up in your results anyway. Another example is specifying a phrase by surrounding it with quotation marks. For example, at times I want to check a new-to-me multi-word term, or try to find a phrase I only hazily remember. But that only works if the search works. Even if it does work, an engine might offer other phrases containing your search terms, just in a different order. Obviously that isn’t helpful. A recent example is “price cliff”, for which Google offered the Instagram profile of one “Cliff Price” among the top results. Categorically not what I was looking for!

Your Decision Is Stupid-Ass

The results might also be interspersed not just by ads but other irrelevant blocks (People also ask” or Related Searches” or such). Granted, related searches do have their use; there are times when it is helpful to see adjacent topics or terminology. They definitely shouldn’t take space from the most relevant results, though, and the suggestions must actually be, you know, related to be relevant.

Further, search engines have stopped displaying the number of results for a query. (Remember when that was a thing?) These days it’s anyone’s guess whether you’re being served with a butt-load or a crap-ton of increasingly poor results.

Finally, at worst your search engine of choice will serve pop-ups in the margins (See all!” “More from source!”) or push their “mobile experience”. *sigh*

Inigo-Montoya-WORD-MEANS

These days, the search engine “experience” (WTH is that even supposed to be?!?) is like going to a restaurant and ordering pasta, but being served paste instead: not at all what was expected, entirely wasteful, and potentially harmful—and if you were to claim that the deliverable is “close” to the request, it is just insulting.

SATW Computer Technician Snippet

If this is what “smart” business people believe counts as quality output these days, I wouldn’t trust them to think their way out of a pillow case. (Yes, a pillow case, since the poor airbrains would probably hurt themselves with something as sharp as a paper bag.)

According to BBC, a Google spokesperson has defended AI-created overviews saying that “[t]he vast majority […] provide high quality information, with links to dig deeper on the web”. Speaking of vast majorities, most people are just not interested in digging and absolutely will not dig deeper; they want a clear-cut answer and they want it quickly. That means improving the quality of results, and neither the recent, pre-AI iterations nor the curret AI-“improved” engines deliver that.

I can’t think what the heck is up with the encrapification of search engines. Or why does it seem absolutely necessary to keep tweaking a good product what feels like every few months until it’s unrecognizeable.

Is it sunk cost fallacy? A form of mass hysteria spreading from Silicon Valley? Is maintaining a steady level of good service so moth-eaten a concept that it can’t attract resources anymore beyond the barest minimum? Are developers (or developers’ bosses) really that unable to comprehend that a change does not automatically mean an improvement? Is the only thing that matters the ceaseless chase after new features, regardless of whether they will shape up your service or shatter it?

Dog Chases Lead around Tree

It’s so frustrating, in any case. We, here, are nerds and do at times dig very deep. Sadly, these days search engines often hinder research instead of helping. Lately I’ve noticed that I’m turning more to bookmarks saved in my browser, or pick a specific site I’ve vetted earlier. It’s obviously not a foolproof answer, either, because I need to remember which entity has or might have the information I’m after in order to go and search their pages.

I’m quite ready to live in the most boring of times, with reliable basic services, please and thank you.

Images: Confused cat via Meme Binge on Flickr (CC BY 2.0). Your Decision Is Stupid-Ass via QuickMeme. Inigo Montoya via Imgur. Computer Technician, detail of a Scandinavia and the World comic by Humon. Dog chasing its lead via GifBin.

Dress Uniform Transmog

I love the old-time nautical style of the Kul Tirans in World of Warcraft. I like imagining that my Kul Tiran warrior stepped off the pages of the fantasy equivalent of a Patrick O’Brien novel. So, now that the season of holiday parties is coming, it seems like a good time to give her a proper dress uniform transmog. What do you think?

The outfit uses the Sky-Captain’s Formal Coat and a couple of pieces from the Gilnean Noble’s set, which I think go together handsomely. The swords are older models, but they pick up the blue and gold tones of the rest of the outfit and look appropriately cutlass-like. Here’s all the pieces.

Image: World of Warcraft screencap

Ancient Greek Clay Cooker for Multiple Dishes

Look at this amazing ancient multi-tier clay cooker:

Imgur TheRainbowegoSweet007 Delos Cooker

There seems to be frustratingly little information available online. I haven’t been been able to track down full details for this apparatus, but some sources call it an anthrakia. Considering that anthrakia means ‘a heap of burning coals’ it sounds at least plausible (but as I said I don’t know). Apparently it’s from 500 BCE or so (although one source says 2nd c. BCE), and was found on the island of Delos, Greece.

Delos was one of the most sacred places of ancient Greece—claimed to be the birthplace of Artemis and Apollo—and a busy trade center for centuries if not millenia. It looks like the only images of this cooker come from the Archaeological Museum of Delos. No-one seems to have posted the associated text, though, so I still don’t know quite as much as I’d like.

Such an ingenious arrangement, though, isn’t it? The oven has space for a hand-held grill and an area at the front for raking coals into (I assume). Above the oven, there is an opening to rest a frying pan on. As if that’s not enough, above that to the back of the cooker there are tube-like stands for three cooking pots, through which the pots also have access to heat from the oven. You could have five dishes cooking at the same time. And it looks like the cooker is also portable.

It’s impressive both from the point of view of functionality and design—the oven-stove-grill combo seems to have been made as one piece. (Or possibly two pieces, if the pedestal that looks like an upside-down plant pot was made separately.)

Not bad for a 2,000+ year-old kitchen gadget, right? I can almost hear the sizzling of frying food.

With that, I’ll wish our readers in the U.S. a Happy Thanksgiving! 🙂

Image via TheRainbowegoSweet007 on Imgur

Official Trailer Offers More on Captain America: Brave New World

Besides the teaser trailer, there’s now a new, official Captain America: Brave New World trailer:

Captain America: Brave New World | Official Trailer by Marvel Entertainment on YouTube

Sounds like the plot will be grimmer than the teaser intimated. There are a few funny moments, too, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe prefers, for instance when Sam lands with a *whump* in the middle of a handful of soldiers guarding a mansion, quips “Wait for it”, and just pauses while the concussive blast from his landing knocks the soldiers back.

Liv Tyler makes a comeback as Betty Ross according to IMBD, even if we haven’t seen her yet—yay! In the cast listing there is also a whole bunch of new-to-me characters with superhero names, like Sidewinder (played by Giancarlo Esposito), Rachel Leighton / Diamondback (Rosa Salazar), Samuel Sterns / The Leader (Tim Blake Nelson), and Ruth Bat-Seraph / Sabra (Shira Haas). Looking forward to finding out more about them.

On one hand, topic-wise this would not be my nr. 1 pick for entertainment while two wars are being fought in Europe: the teaser mentioned shifting global power, and now this official trailer straight-up talks about coordinated terrorist attacks and President Ross being a wartime president. Brr.

They are also clearly trying to imply something by the repetitive division of the screen into two halves during the trailer. It could be just a way to stuff more material in, of course, but I suspect something more nefarious is intended, especially with the line about the President’s inner circle being compromised, the scratching “Reset Ross Reset America” on the wall, hints of brainwashing or other kinds of manipulation, etc.

On the other hand, the MCU movies really aren’t that deep or complex even when they pretend to be. I’m sure they’ll serve a nicely enough wrapped-up solution, if not in this movie, then in a future installment. A simple, black-and-white action romp may be just the thing to while away a couple of hours.

Just one little snarky hint to President Ross, though: if you don’t want a variable out there that you can’t control, do not be a president. A soldier should know that.

Stories in which Being Good is Smart

I’ve been thinking a bit lately about how to describe the kind of stories I want to experience, whether on the page or the screen. I’ve long known that I enjoy stories about characters solving problems. But that’s not the only thing I look for in fiction.

I enjoy reading about people who are good to one another, kind, compassionate, and generous. I don’t enjoy stories in which kindness is portrayed as weakness, or in which the most manipulative, cruel, or ruthless characters prosper at the expense of others. I want to see how being kind and treating others well is the best way to go about solving problems. I like stories in which being a good person isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s the smart thing to do.

I don’t mean stories with a moralistic bent, in which some outside force (be it divinity, fate, or just the author’s guiding hand) intervenes to reward virtue and punish vice. I don’t want to see good people win just because they are good. I want to see them win because complicated problems can’t be solved by one person acting alone, no matter how devious or ruthless they may be. Big problems only get solved by people working together, and the best way to get people working together is to treat them decently.

Here are a few my favorite stories on page and screen that fit what I’m looking for.

J. R. R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings is a tale of cosmic good and evil, but one that plays out on the individual level. The forces of good ultimately triumph because many individual people, some of them quite small and unimportant, choose the good of others over their own safety or comfort. Katherine Addison’s The Goblin Emperor follows Maia, a neglected half-goblin prince, as he is thrust by circumstance onto the throne of an Elvish empire. Maia is surrounded by devious plotters and dangerous revolutionaries, but he keeps his throne and his head by listening to others, finding trustworthy allies, and being compassionate to the weak and vulnerable. In Martha Wells’s Murderbot Diaries series, the sarcastically self-named Murderbot is a human/machine construct designed by a ruthless ultra-capitalist corporation to fight and kill, but who would rather just be left alone to watch media. Over the course of the stories, it discovers humans who are not ruthless ultra-capitalists, whom it ends up learning to trust and value.

Star Trek is all about characters being good. Deep Space Nine pushes its characters to the limits of the universe’s hopeful utopianism through trauma and war, but ultimately finds them trusting one another, working together, and finding compassion even for their most implacable enemies. In Doctor Who, the wandering Time Lord stumbles into one disaster after another, but approaches them all with a spirit of hope and understanding, asking questions always and shooting never. Downton Abbey follows the inhabitants of the titular manor, both the family upstairs and the staff downstairs, through the tumultuous social changes of the early twentieth century. All the characters have their flaws, and some can be quite vicious, but the series follows how the characters come to rely on one another, and how even the most mercenary of them learn that kindness and compassion are vital for surviving in a changing world.

These are the kinds of stories I want more of: people being good or learning to be good, not just because it’s the right thing to do, but because it works.

Images by Erik Jensen

Dune: Prophecy Official Teasers and Series Trailer, with Thoughts

Based on director Denis Villeneuve’s Dune movies, the spin-off series Dune: Prophecy premieres in a few days on HBO (also to stream on Max). Here is the official trailer:

Dune: Prophecy | Official Series Trailer | Max by Max on YouTube

And the two older teasers:

Dune: Prophecy | Official Teaser – Influence | Max by Max on YouTube

Dune: Prophecy | Official Teaser 2 – Control | Max by Max on YouTube

Ok, wow. Not sure how to unpack it all.

I read the original Dune trilogy at an impressionable age, so I have fond memories of the world, even if I wasn’t then able to grasp all the bleaker implications. I’m also in general of the opinion that published stories including—if not especially—the SFFnal ones need more women who are active in their own right.

On one hand, D:P is specifically a creation story for Bene Gesserit, i.e., it should be full of active women. As Bene Gesserit can use their training for impressive physical feats as well as truthsaying, it should also have potential for women being awesome, which is always, well, awesome. 🙂

On the other hand, while I find their training conceptually intriguing, the major goal of Bene Gesserit is a breeding program. Women used as broodmares turns me off (as does considering men little else than sperm donors or cannon fodder), and the fact that the perps here are women makes it only very slightly better.

Furthermore, these clips have numerous unsavory-to-me details: e.g. the imperative “Sisterhood above all” sounds incredibly obnoxious, dancing around a fire pseudo-mystic claptrap, screaming with messy hair and scribbling edgy art projects in black borders on unhinged. (Then again, trailers always lie, so who knows.) Nor do I care for brutalist concrete architecture, nor an arid planet after a desolate one—there just doesn’t seem to be enough variety in this supposedly interstellar empire’s culture or environments.

The main foil seems to be this scruffy dude. He generates no interest at all in me, just a fleeting bafflement of how can someone apparently lacking merit of any kind have the gall to appear before the emperor looking so scruffy. (Harrison Ford’s Han Solo at least had the charisma and skills, even if he supposedly was scruffy-looking. He was well cast; the young Solo wasn’t. On the basis of these clips, this dude isn’t either.) What is this great power he’s supposedly gifted with, anyway? Being able to bore others to death?

Olivia Williams and Emily Watson (playing the founding sisters of Bene Gesserit, Tula and Valya Harkonnen, respectively) plus Mark Strong (as the emperor) are the only actors I remember seeing elsewhere. In addition, I have previously seen the work of only one of the named series writers.

Also, while in general I want my entertainment to involve brainy plots, at the moment I’m not too keen on stories about power acquisition, political intrigues, or backstabbing.

All of the above put together (plus my lukewarmness towards Villeneuve’s adaptation) means I will nope out of D:P. I really would’ve wanted to like the movies more, and consequently this series, especially since it tells us more about Bene Gesserit.

Anyone here planning to see D:P?